2 John

Transcript from the podcast (so sorry for the spelling mistakes)

Wildfire podcast is an extension of Wildfire, which has a focus of igniting men and women of God into a deeper discipleship with Christ, instilling people with a passion to radically and relentlessly pursue Christ wherever that leads.

That God's truth will spread like a wildfire.

Hey, guys, welcome back to another podcast.

This is our, I don't even know how to count how many attempts.

It's the third, it's the third.

How many attempts?

It's been three attempts, but it feels...

Like an eternity.

It feels like an eternity.

Jemima's just been climatizing to how to speak into the mic.

So we apologize if there's any fluctuation.

Jemima likes to go back, right back into her seat, and you can't hear her, she likes to then compensate by swallowing the mic.

So, yeah, but I'm guilty of it as well.

I'm guilty of it as well.

I've been...

You were too loud.

I was too loud.

I was too quiet.

And you were way too quiet, and together it made...

It was just awful.

It brought problems.

But nonetheless, we're here, we're podcasting.

What are we talking about in this podcast?

We are talking about 2 John.

I mean, it was so well-known because we've had to do this so many times.

So 2 John...

Question.

If I said to you, can you give me a brief summary prior to the podcast of 2 John?

Could you have done it?

No.

I don't think there's any person I'd put a bet on this.

Who could do it?

Yeah, that nobody.

If I asked about 2 John, if you could give me a brief description or a general outline of what 2 John talks about, I don't think any or many could.

Maybe one out of seven billion, which shows you it's a very underrated...

It is, it is underrated.

And I assure you, after this...

You'll all love it.

You'll love it, not because of us, but simply because we're going to talk about God's word.

You know what I mean?

And we love it.

We love it now.

We love it.

In fact, I said in the 10,000th time that we tried to record this, that this was one of my, included one of some of my favorite verses in the whole of the New Testament.

Yeah, big statement.

Big statement.

So we'll start off by providing some context that in the early church tradition from the 2nd century onwards, they all testified in unison that this letter and its companion, 3 John, were written by the Apostle, not a mysterious, unknown elder.

At this junction, I think it's important that we maybe address a question that people are interested in, or have maybe never thought of before, or have thought about and don't really have an answer.

That question is, how did we come to have the books, or better letters that appear in the New Testament?

Why take these and not others, like the Catholic tradition, aka the hypographa Gospels, which I don't know what these are.

I didn't before.

You butchered it though.

It's called, say it with me, hypographa.

Oh.

The hypographa Gospels.

The hypographa Gospels.

The hypographa Gospels.

Exactly.

And you didn't know all seven, do you?

You don't know all seven.

You knew one.

No.

Yeah.

Thomas.

Yeah.

So the hypographa Gospels are those that appear within the Catholic tradition and other traditions, but do not appear in the mainstream Christian tradition in the Bible that we use today.

And an analogy to help us understand what we're gonna be briefly talking about here, because we're gonna use 2 John as a little springboard to answer this bigger question, is an analogy, which I think is quite good, is that Christians are our big family, are all in a big line, sitting at this conveyor belt, working away, doing the things that we need to do.

And things come down that conveyor belt, and we then utilize them and use them to strengthen and bolster our faith.

But we never actually understand the origin or the source of where those things come from.

And I think as Christians, especially now in our generation, I think it's important that we know the origins of any belief that we hold.

For any what that we have, it's important that we have a why that sustantiates or backs up what we believe.

It's important that as representatives of Christ, whereby people look at us, that they don't conclude that we're naive or inheritors of the belief system of the generations that came before us, that is our parents, grandparents, or they conclude that we lack knowledge, wisdom and simply don't have a defense for the paradigm perspective or lens that we hold.

I'm just going to read 1 Peter 3 verse 15, and it says, but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give a defense to every man who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

So the Greek word there for defense is apologia, which is actually where we get our apologetics from.

Did you know that, Jemima, prior to our podcast?

No, I didn't.

I didn't know it.

It's pretty cool, actually.

I rather like it.

And it's always cool learning Greek, knowing Greek.

But we're all called to defend our faith.

So it is important that in our journey, in our race, we're asking ourselves the important questions and we're equipping ourselves with the important truths.

Yeah.

With all that being said, why accept the books that appear in the mainstream translations that we use?

So we will do several podcasts on these, but in brief.

Brief.

Scholars, biblical scholars, atheist scholars, scholars of various different backgrounds have engaged in what is called biblical scholarship, where they deal with the material and content that relates to the Bible, that is the ancient literature that we now know as the Bible.

They analyze the origins, history, and reliability of the Bible that we have come to know and hold in our hands.

Number two is that the traceability.

We can trace the origin of the original letters through the manuscriptal history or recordings of these writings right up until today.

Three, there is two views, an imposed view or an accepted view.

Through the accepted view is that whenever the writings were written, such as 2 John, it was widely accepted that this was divine and then continued on from there through the manuscriptal history with that status.

Or there is what is called the imposed view is that at the Council of Nicaea, a selection of a group of men decided what would appear in the Canon of Scripture and what would not.

But we see through the history and the majority of Christians do and should subscribe that there is the accepted view, that these letters were written and then were widely accepted from the churches, that these were divine and they maintained that status right throughout until today.

But I think a framework used to prove whether these are divine writings or not.

So at that time, how do you decide what is divine writings and what was not?

What was the framework that they used?

Number one is internal features.

So inconsistent theology that appears in these letters, such as the Book of Thomas, it is comprised of really inconsistent theology with regards to how it views femininity and woman.

And so we can see that, you know what I mean, there's a consistency right throughout Old Testament and New Testament.

So you can analyze texts and to see whether they fit the mold of what is being being taught or whether they're radically different.

Number two is that they were not preserved.

What God wanted to preserve has been preserved through the manuscriptal history and anything that God didn't want hasn't been preserved.

It's as simple as that.

So if people say, Oh, what about this, this letter or this book?

Why does it not appear in the canon of scripture?

It's simply because we don't have the manuscripts for it.

We don't have the copies.

We don't have the content or material to include it.

And we as Christians believe that's because God's divine sovereignty in his hand hasn't preserved such texts as it has with the other ones.

Number three is apostolic authority.

So there's a connection through Jesus, then the disciples.

So there's apostolic connection to the writings.

So writings that appear centuries later and don't have apostolic connection, they don't have that credibility or authenticity with regards to divinity.

Number four is that they're widely accepted from their earliest date.

So some of these letters were written within the first century of the life of Jesus, decades after the life of Jesus, around 60 to 100 AD, perhaps even before they were accepted from followers of Jesus.

And number five is the dating.

Gospels were written decades, centuries before Hippogriffa Gospels.

And so the Hippogriffa ones that appear later, they again just don't have the credibility.

So there's just a framework that is used to decide and conclude the reliability of letters such as 2 John and every other book that we read in our mainstream translations.

So again, that's just one aspect of apologetics.

But we've used 2 John as a springboard to address that question, that can be applied to all the books that we've talked about and will talk about and letters that we've talked about and will talk about.

And then we'll go into further detail in future podcasts.

But what are the central themes of 2 John?

Um, central themes.

So 2 John, like 3 John, has a focus on protecting fellowship against false teachers.

Again, tying in with what we said earlier, it's important that you know what you believe and why you believe it so you can identify heresy or false teaching.

Um, John would combat the heresies of his time.

Dos, dos, dositism, montanism.

I can't, you say that one.

I can't do that one.

Marcionism.

Marcionism.

I can do the last one.

Marcionism.

Nostanism.

Nosticism.

Nosticism.

Yeah.

Those are the four main heretical teachings that John was, was combating.

Amongst others, Paul also combats specifically Nostacism.

So dositism is, you knew this, that they didn't.

They didn't believe Jesus was a real person, a real body, had a real body.

Yes.

They, they basically attacked the hypostatic union, divinity and humanity of, of Jesus.

Montanism practices strict ascetism.

So it's, it was really heretical in its practice.

Marcionism rejects the Old Testament and majority of the New Testament, it just takes fragments of what it wants to.

That is Marcion, the founder of what he wanted to teach.

And Nostacism is this idea of gnosis and knowledge, spirituality, which is very common amongst our society today.

You get different aspects.

Of course, it's not called Nostacism, but people are submerging themselves in that spirituality stuff.

Okay, cool.

So there are the essential things.

So the content, we've highlighted a few key verses.

Verse 1, Jemima, would you mind reading that?

Yeah.

Verse 1 says, This letter is from John, the elder.

I'm writing to the chosen lady and to her children whom I love in the truth, as does everyone else who knows the truth.

So, the important thing about 2 John is it's very easy to split up.

And the two central themes are truth and love.

It is repeated over and over again, truth and love and the relationship that exists between them.

And this is repeated throughout the Epistles, throughout the Old Testament, New Testament, specifically the Epistles.

And 2 John is a really good source that emphasizes this topic.

We see also that the lady, she's obviously well known, because we don't, you know what I mean?

Yeah, the elder lady.

Oh, we all know who that is.

Well, we don't.

She is.

But they must have.

So she's not specifically addressed.

But verse 3.

Yes, do you want me to read it?

I'll read it.

I'd love you to read it.

I'll read it.

Verse 3 says, Grace, mercy, and peace, which come from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father will continue to be with us who live in truth and love.

So for me, what stands out there is the Godhead.

So we're saying, I think, you know, a part of John's gospel was to show the divinity of Christ, that he truly was the Son of God.

And I think that this appears here in this verse.

He's showing the diversity and the unity between the Father and the Son.

Verse 5.

Verse 5.

I'm writing to remind you, dear friends, that we should love one another.

This is not a new commandment, but one we have had from the beginning.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Talk us through your initial thoughts on that, John.

I'm pretty sure there's like laughing gas in this room.

Yeah.

Every time I pitch something to you, you laugh.

What is it?

I'm so tired.

I just...

What is it?

I love 2 John.

Anyway, verse 5.

Is that what we read?

Yeah, verse 5.

Yeah.

That's what you literally just read.

Yeah.

So it's not a new commandment.

So like from the start of the Bible, that's what we've been told to love one another, love God, because God loves us.

John's right.

And he's like, guys, this is the commandment.

And this is the commandment that we've been given from the beginning, okay?

It's not...

Don't act as if this is a new concept.

Yeah, he's reminding.

He's writing to remind them.

That you love one another, okay?

And then it goes on to tell us how we love in the next verse.

Next verse says, love means doing what God has commanded us, and he has commanded us to love one another, just as you heard from the beginning.

So love is illustrated through obedience.

The obedience of God's words, God's laws, his statutes, his precepts.

And I think that that is something that is totally dichotomized in our society.

It's totally like separated that love and law, love and obedience.

We don't usually put those two together.

Rather, it's the opposite, like laws, legalism, ritualism.

That's what it's always comprised of, people who uphold a law and uphold a person to a standard.

They're described as people of hatred.

But we see here that that's the opposite, that the commandment, the way to love one another is to uphold truth and to be obedient to God's word.

Do you have any more thoughts on that?

No, I agree.

Yeah, you don't, because I never really knew that from 1st or 2nd John before about like love equals obedience, obedience equals love.

So yeah, it's challenging.

It's great.

Good.

Good to know.

Love that.

So verse 9.

Verse 9.

What's verse 9 saying?

It says, anyone who wanders away from this teaching has no relationship with God, but anyone who remains in the teaching of Christ has a relationship with both the father and the son.

Read the first part.

Anyone who wanders away from this teaching has no relationship with God.

Yeah.

In the ESV, I think it says, whoever doesn't abide, which I love.

Yeah.

Whoever doesn't abide.

What does it say?

It says anyone who wanders away from this teaching.

Yes.

Yeah.

So anyone doesn't abide or wander away from God's teaching.

Then what does it say next?

What's the consequence?

Anyone?

Oh, has no relationship with God.

So there you go.

That's it.

He's not messing around.

John is straight at the point.

And it acts as a catalyst because whenever we think about, Jesus says, abide in me.

So we have to abide in Jesus.

But who is Jesus?

He says, I am the way, the truth.

So Jesus is the truth.

So abide in Jesus, abide in truth.

Yeah.

Jesus is truth.

And then here we're told to constantly speak truth and love.

And I think often or not, we want to uphold love, but we need to uphold truth.

Truth is a person and you can't sacrifice one without the other.

I heard it said that, like in a street, people are going to kill love for the sake.

No, I've lost it.

And it's so good as well.

In a street.

It will come to me.

It will come to me.

But in Ephesians 4, it says, speak truth and love.

They come hand in hand.

They're synonymous.

They're a married couple.

You can't have one without the other.

So to speak truth, not in love.

You're not speaking truth.

To love, but not speak in truth.

You're not loving.

Love and truth are one of the same.

Truth is truth.

Truth is Jesus.

You can't abide in Christ if you're not living in truth and love.

And the other way around as well.

So you need to abide in Christ.

You need to abide in truth.

You need to speak truth in love.

Truth is a person, that person being Jesus.

And we need to abide in him.

And if we don't, if we don't abide in truth, if truth being Jesus, then?

No relationship with God.

We have no relationship with God.

Crazy.

Verse 10, verse 10 and 11, read the 2 verses.

If anyone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don't invite that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement.

Anyone who encourages such people becomes a partner in their evil work.

Thoughts?

Thoughts.

So like they're talking about like the false teachers and yeah, they're not to be invited into like their home or like a lot of in the early churches had their churches in their homes.

So it's like church as well, technically.

So yeah, it seems harsh, like not inviting them to church at all or like to hear the actual truth, but it's because they're going to be detrimental and they're such dangerous people.

So John's just warning them, warning the church against them.

Unlike showing any kind of hospitality would kind of like urge them on in their kind of mission.

So that's not what should be happening.

So on a practical pastoral level, elders and deacons, they must be able to identify heresies and the heretics that then spout that.

And they should make sure that they're members, their flock, that they shepherd them, and that they make sure that they disassociate themselves with said teachers.

Does that mean that we never preach the gospel to them?

No, because the Bible's all about transformational inclusion.

So that these heretics, they are wrong, and they're identified as heretics, such as the Gnostics, Marcion, these guys of that time.

And we can identify some of those false teachers today.

We can identify them, say them, call them out, and make sure that our flock stays away from them.

And that we don't have fellowship the same way we do with other believers.

But in equal measure, we pray for those people in the hope that God would transform and restore their hearts, and then they might come under a consistent theology, that is consistent truth.

And by abiding in consistent truth and consistent love, they are true followers of Jesus.

So verse 12 finishes off there.

Verse 12 and 13 might as well.

13 is quite short.

It's like four words.

I have much more to say to you, but I don't want to do it with paper and ink, for I hope to visit you soon and talk with you face to face.

Then our joy will be complete.

Greetings from the sister.

No, the children of your sister chosen by God.

Yeah.

So I love the way that ends, because to me, it sparks a thought that God uses sinful, sinful humans.

He then transforms and restores through the gospel, through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.

And then he then, and in the Old Testament as well, obviously it was a different covenant, but through faith, God would appoint prophets.

He would appoint these men to speak through.

He would use them to speak his message.

So I find it amazing that John, this writer, has this papaya, this piece of paper, and that he's just writing down the words of God on this paper, wherever he's at, in such a normal setting.

But that, yeah, that's God's word.

And yet it's been preserved through that manuscriptal history that we've talked about to the words that we've just read.

Pretty crazy and pretty cool.

So conclusion is, I can't remember what the metaphor was.

It was something like, truth is too important to kill in the streets for the sake of peace.

Oh.

Yes, that's what it is.

Because too often or not, it's like, oh, you believe this, you believe this.

It doesn't matter.

Let's just love each other.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah.

But that is, you know what I mean?

Truth is too important.

That's true.

It is a person, the person being Jesus.

And again, we just talked about it.

That in order to have love, you need truth, and truth is Jesus.

And so to kill truth would be to kill Jesus.

And it's not worth it for the sake of peace.

It's not worth it for the easy friendship, the easy relationship, the easy interaction.

That is to say, we're to stand firm, we're to stand strong for God's word, and everything that it stands for, we're called to uphold and speak truth in love.

And that is the way that we love others, by being obedient to God's word and being obedient to God's word, is to abide in Christ, to abide in the truth that is Jesus, and to uphold these principles.

Do you have anything else to say, to close us out in this podcast?

No, I don't.

You've covered everything really well.

Hey, you've done really well as well.

Thanks so much.

Really proud of myself for reading the verses out.

No, it's more than that.

I bet you they'll take your thoughts more than they have mine.

I hope so.

I appreciate you.

The podcasters appreciate you.