Proverbs

Transcript from podcast (so sorry for the spelling mistakes)

Wildfire podcast is an extension of Wildfire Ministries, an organization that has a focus of igniting men and women of God into a deeper discipleship with Christ, instilling them with a passion to radically and relentlessly pursue Christ wherever that leads, that God's truth will spread like a wildfire.

Hey guys, and welcome to another podcast.

I'm Luke Taylor, obviously, and I'm joined with Peter Wright.

Yes, so we were talking with some of our closest friends, brothers in Christ, and the Proverbs do say a friend sticks closer than a brother, and they had not listened to a single one of our podcasts.

Peter?

Well, we'll find out if they have listened to them since that when this episode comes out.

Yeah.

We name drop them.

Exactly.

Well, I've actually blocked them on all social media platforms, so I won't be able to know.

Just a lot of resentment, but we're not talking about that.

We're not talking about conflict resolution.

We are here to talk about Proverbs.

So.

Where did the Proverbs fit into the Bible?

Well, Solomon began the tradition of wisdom in 1 Kings 3 and 4.

Now, this story.

That's us back in the Hebrew Bible, is it?

Yes, of course, we're just with Peter.

We're always back in the Hebrew Bible.

I'm not going to apologize for it.

So, the story of 1 Kings 3 and 4 is whenever God appears to Solomon in a dream, and he says, what do you want?

And I will give it to you.

And Solomon asks for wisdom, which isn't a bad thing to ask for, okay?

Could have asked for a lot worse.

And wisdom is one of the pillars of the Bible, and it's something that we're called to constantly pray for.

And tell us a bit more about that story.

Well, God visits him in a dream, as he said, and Solomon asked for wisdom.

And God said, because you've asked for this and not for gold or riches or more wives, because he already had a few at this stage, I think, God said that this is a good thing.

So I'll give you all these other things that he didn't ask for.

Not the wives, but the gold and the riches and the prosperity in the land of Israel at that time.

And Solomon, I think some people worked out that he annually brought in a billion, modern day worth a billion dollars every year.

And that was his annual income, not even the value of the property or anything that he owned.

So God obviously delivered on his promise outside of the wisdom.

Okay.

So from 1 Kings 3 and 4, following this, it mentions other wisdom literature, or it's the beginning of wisdom literature.

So you have other books such as Ecclesiastes, which is considered, what is it, that weathered man or the critic.

The critic.

The critic.

So he's got a very negative perspective on life at first glance where everything's futile.

But then obviously it takes a different direction by the end of it, whenever it establishes fear of the Lord.

And then you've also got Job, which is a part of suffering.

And then you've got Proverbs, which is what we were talking about.

So you should probably better take in all them together.

Yeah.

And Proverbs generally deals with the ideal situation, what's going to happen and what's the ideal outcome.

Whereas these other literature, wisdom literature, they deal with the exceptions to the rule.

So we're going to be talking about the rules tonight.

Perfect.

So it's a good example of not just taking Proverbs isolated, but rather taking them within their context of, with Ecclesiastes and Job together, they really create a good foundation or springboard for you to jump off and engage in daily living.

So how would you split Proverbs up Peter?

Yeah, from a bit of research, I think the easiest way to split up is to four different sections.

So chapters one to nine is our instructions from a father to his son.

And there's a character called Lady Wisdom, who's kind of the personification of wisdom.

It's a literary device, which Luke would probably know more about than me.

A-level.

You know, A-level English?

I did.

That's not mentioned that.

But it's important to understand that wisdom is personified as a woman in the Proverbs, so it shows how God holds women in high regard.

And then the second section is chapters 10 to 29.

These are examples of wisdom in lots of different daily contexts that we can look at.

And the third section is chapter 30, which is a guy called Agar, spelled A-G-U-R.

Is that how you would say it, Luke?

A-G-U-R.

Agar.

Agar.

Agar.

Set with confidence.

We're really feeling this confidence.

And this shows us how to...

He is the ideal reader for the Proverbs, so he's going to show us how to read the Proverbs and the Bible in general.

And chapter 31 is from a character called King Lemuel.

And it's an acrostic poem in Hebrew about the model woman, and it's delivered to King Lemuel from his mother.

Okay.

So, first section, look, it's chapter 1-9.

What are you going to say about that?

Okay.

So, obviously, important thing to understand about the Proverbs, we were talking about this, is you can take each Proverb on its own and, I think, write books, to be honest with you.

Obviously, I'm using hyperbole there, but then you can actually take the verses themselves.

They contain so much wisdom.

So, it is actually impossible for us in, like, a 25-minute podcast to mention every little thing.

So we're going to just, with our discernment, pluck out things that we think are preeminent or really important.

So you've got Proverbs chapter three, verse five, which is one of my favorites, which is, Love the Lord your God with all your heart.

Just an amazing passage.

And it talks by, again, in that passage, it talks about wisdom, it talks about God's word, it talks about writing it on your heart, tying it around your neck.

Again, these are visible metaphors or imagery to show the essential nature of God's word and how it needs, it's imperative that it's in all of our lives.

And then obviously in Jewish custom, and they would have the-

Teflon, is that what they're called?

What's the Teflon?

Teflon, it's where they bind their prayers around their arms, around their head.

Okay, so it was literally, literally they took that.

Oh yeah, they took that very literally from the Torah.

I didn't know that.

I thought it was just imagery.

So there you go, it was both.

Okay.

And then-

That's what I thought you were living to there.

Yeah, I totally was.

And obviously you'd have, there was very limited scrolls, so they don't have an accessible Bible as we do on their phones and Bibles back in that context.

So they would memorize large chunks of scripture.

And this was actually in Jewish custom called remez.

Okay.

Which is, yeah, if you have bitters of breast, you know that.

Okay.

It's called remez whereby I would say a verse from a chapter and then you would be able to recollect the rest of that chapter.

So it was really, it was really cool and really important.

So again, it was talking about the essential nature of the word of God.

And an example of that again in this verse is, so it says, love the Lord your God with all your heart.

And the one, well, not one, the one verse, but one of the main verses Hebrew boys and girls would learn is the Shema.

So here Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is one, you will love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your strength.

So you can see, love your Lord with all your heart.

That's what Solomon would have memorized as a child.

And now he's writing it in a slightly different context as a proverb.

So he sees that as the foundation of wisdom.

Perfect.

And, you know, you memorize that in Hebrew, the Shema.

So it's not hard.

It's not hard.

Would you recommend people memorizing the Shema?

Hebrew does sound pretty cool, but I'm like the only person that thinks that.

Everyone else says it.

No, honestly, just Peter's pulled that out in many parties.

Many parties.

And it has not performed well.

OK, so another beautiful chapter is Proverbs 9 verse 10.

It's a really key verse where the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Again, in wisdom literature, fear of the Lord is of utmost importance.

Again, we sort of lost that in our society, I feel.

A lack of fear and reverence for the Almighty God.

And if you want to hear a chapter of God's Majesty, Isaiah 6 would recommend.

I'm just going to leave it there.

But fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

That's where it starts.

And that's the foundation.

And that will then allow you to gain more wisdom day by day daily.

So, Peter, Proverbs 10 and 29.

I sort of feel like I did it really hard there because I've just done one to nine, and now you've got 10 to 29.

Although these ones aren't too hard though, because they're all the exact same format, which we'll talk about in more detail.

But these Proverbs can be plucked out in the simplest form as just examples of what to do in the situations that you're faced with in everyday life.

And so, for example, an example of this would be Proverbs 17, 28, that says, even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise.

When he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.

And Abraham Lincoln, I think it was actually like repurposed, this proverb to say, oh, what was it?

He said, it is better to remain silent and for people to think you're a fool.

Than to speak and remove all doubt.

Than to speak and remove all doubt.

And so this is where his reference for that is Proverbs 17, 28.

So you get like examples like that.

But an important thing to remember is the Proverbs is Hebrew poetry.

So the fundamental thing about that is Hebrew poetry isn't like English, it's not the rhyming of sounds, it's the rhyming of ideas, which is actually quite hard because it works in every single language.

But we'll see more examples of this later on.

But just remember to focus on not the sounds because it's not going to rhyme, even if you try to make it.

But it's the ideas that they're trying to promote.

And in these sections especially, but over the entire book of Proverbs, it's usually a comparison of two opposing ideas, which is wisdom versus folly or foolishness.

So wisdom in Hebrew is hochma, and it's practical as well as intellectual.

So you can look at Proverbs 31 and 36, or sorry, Exodus 31 and 36 and 39.

And there's a character called Betzalel, and he's in charge of making lots of the instruments and parts of the tabernacle, which is the big tent of meeting that God used to meet with the Israelites in.

And he is described as having hochma or wisdom.

But it's a practical thing.

It's the skill he uses with his hands.

It's not just intellectual or head knowledge, it's how he goes about his daily life and his work.

And in regards to folly, it's referred to not only as intellectual foolishness, but moral foolishness as well.

So if you, can you think of any examples of that, Luke?

Of?

Of foolishness.

Of foolishness not just being intellectual, but also moral.

Foolishness and intellectual.

Do you have one on the top of your head?

No, that's why I asked you.

Oh darn.

Yeah, but well, you can just use examples like, okay, abortion for example.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, yes.

I was so lost there.

Okay.

I apologize.

That's nothing to do with your speak, because I'm totally engaged in this.

And as you can tell, Peter is carrying us in this Proverbs, because this man is intellectual with regards to this.

And I'm learning so much.

So you guys have to bear with us in this, if you're surviving this, because it's so, so good.

But in this here, okay, yes, moral foolishness, I completely understand.

So like abortion, it sort of shows that we're being clouded in our society, that that is perceived as a normative thing.

Okay, I completely understand.

You got it now.

I apologize.

Perhaps I've messed that explanation up.

Do you?

I know, I apologize.

That's on me.

Okay, that's okay.

That's on me.

I apologize.

So continuing on in Proverbs, so keep going in this middle section.

Yeah, so the best example to look for how to treat the Proverbs is how the ancient peoples treated the law.

So the way they treated the Torah or law was, it was taken, some laws were taken to treat like, if someone commits murder, then they deserve to die as capital punishment.

But most of the other laws were taken on the basis of, this is the ideal, or this is how you ought to behave, but it doesn't account for every single situation.

Like the Torah isn't exhaustive.

It doesn't cover every single situation that they would face in ancient Israel in terms of crimes.

So therefore, you had to look at the laws that were given by God and say, okay, this is how we act in this situation.

How is that similar to the one that's being presented to us now?

And then we can look at Proverbs in a similar way.

So with Proverbs, Solomon gives us tons of examples of how to act in everyday situations.

And then we can therefore take that to our own lives and say, even if there isn't a proverb about this, I can see how Solomon told us to act in wisdom in these other situations, and I can therefore draw the principles of that into my own life.

Does that make sense to you?

Yes, of course.

So it's not an objective thing.

It's not like you take the principle from Proverbs and then you just apply it straight into your own life.

Rather, it is the framework of that proverb.

It is the principle itself that you extract from it.

Yeah.

Well, some Proverbs can be applied directly, but what I'm kind of saying is it's not exhaustive again, same as Torah.

They don't cover every single situation.

So therefore Solomon allows us to create a framework that we can build into for our own lives.

Yeah.

So an example of this in modern kind of thinking is with a computer program or an algorithm, especially with deep learning.

Are you familiar with that, Luke?

No.

We were talking about your English a level earlier.

This is hopefully my ICT.

I'm just failing in this Paul Cass Left, Right and Center.

You're asking me questions and I'm just, I don't know, but it shows we're all in the business of learning.

Tell me more.

Just tell me.

Speaking about learning, if you're going to teach a machine how to learn, you give it the algorithm, which is what to do with information.

And then you give it examples and tell it what the right answer is.

And then therefore you're affirming its decision making as it goes along.

So the Proverbs can be treated in the same way.

We're given an algorithm of choice one, which leads to good consequences and choice two, which leads to bad consequences.

And then Solomon gives us tons of Proverbs to filter through this process and tells us what the results are either way.

And then we have this algorithm that we can apply to our own lives and say, okay, if I do this thing in my life, I will reap this, most likely reap this good consequence.

Or if I do this bad thing in my life, I'll most likely reap this bad consequence.

And we'll go into some details.

So for example, Proverbs 10-4 talks about a slack hand, which is a negative thing.

Negative connotations terms, yeah.

Yes, causes poverty, which is a negative result.

Okay.

And then it says, but the hand of the diligence, which is a good cause, makes rich, which is a good result.

Okay.

Okay, so a bit of like law of cause and effect, so what your cause will then determine your outcome.

Okay, and then this is, Proverbs is clearly giving us examples of good causes, which will then result in good results.

Okay, but that's not always the case, but that is later elaborated on in other wisdom literature.

So it's not like, oh, I'm so kind.

And then, but why is this negative thing happening?

So that requires further elaboration, but as a general principle, again, this is what Solomon is teaching us.

So, what about Proverbs 13 and 11, where wealth is gained hastily, that's the negative cause, and then will dwindle as a result.

But then the positive is whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

Okay, so there's that idea of law of cause and effect.

Again, the principles that are given by Solomon, and then we apply that experientially in our own lives.

So that may look different in each of our own lives, but the principle remains the same.

Yeah, and the rule doesn't work the same all the time.

There's a few exceptions in terms of the actual algorithm.

So Proverbs 21.15 says, when justice is done, so that's a good cause, is a joy to the righteous, which is a good result.

And then it says, but terror to evildoers.

So that's a negative result for someone else, for a fool, based on a good concept.

So there are different ways you have to work this algorithm, but it's quite simple to work out once you work out the verses.

And you might think this is very simplistic, like, oh yeah, of course, if I do good, then good things are going to happen.

Yeah, that's a very simple way.

But like personally, that's not the way I treat decisions in life.

Yes, you tend to either over simplify or over complicate, or else just go with whatever your flesh wants.

We don't take the time to consider the wisdom that should be applied.

Yeah.

So can you think of any an example of this look?

Well, what I would say is common sense is not common practice.

So I've heard that I've heard that loads.

So there's loads of scriptures that we ourselves know, but yet we don't apply.

And so give us examples on that, Peter.

Yeah.

So just a quick example would be in terms of alcohol.

Yes.

So the Proverbs talks in many places about be wary of the wine for it's sparkles in the cup, and how the temptation of alcohol can lead to negative side effects.

For example, Proverbs 20 verse 1.

So it gives us lots of examples that we can put through our framework about alcohol and how it can be used in many different ways, mostly reaping negative consequences.

Yeah.

There's a lot of focus on our discernment, on personal discernment, on it's that whole idea about how wisdom is something that is built up, is something that is gained again.

We were just talking about 1311, about how someone gathers little by little.

The whole principle there is about diligence and about daily pursuit after God, and how we incrementally build up our knowledge about Jesus Christ.

In Proverbs 1-9, it talks about understanding, brings knowledge, knowledge, wisdom, how those who have understanding desire knowledge.

These are the things that just are all interrelated and bring that collective joy, that collective knowledge in good.

So again, if you apply all these things to your life, and just take the time to think, okay, is this a good decision or is this a bad decision?

And the problem is we don't do this with our lives.

Like the example of alcohol, you may think, oh, well, I just want to.

It's only one drink.

That wouldn't be such a bad idea.

But if you take the time to think about it, okay, it's just one drink, but one of the possible negative consequences, it could lead to a second drink, which could lead to a third, or even one drink is recommended you don't drive.

Yeah.

So it's like we're all instilled with the know-how.

We know these principles, and obviously the more we read Proverbs in, the more we'll get acquainted with it and understand, but rather the importance of, I think, what is being evaded here in the Proverbs is try and extract yourself from the situation.

So whether that means you're out with a group of friends, or like for me, you know, I'm out with a group of lads from the football team drinking, extract myself from the situation and ask, what's not going to get me more popular with them, or deepen my friendship with them, but rather what is going to be most honouring and glorifying to God?

And how will I be a light in that regard?

And again, just that brief moment of taking yourself back and then applying these Proverbs will actually on a daily level transform your life as a believer of Jesus Christ.

Another example would be pornography.

So there are no Proverbs about pornography that say it's a bad thing.

Yeah.

But we can take, there's an entire chapter of the Proverbs that talks about how you shouldn't commit adultery and how you shouldn't go after women who are enticing and that kind of thing.

And then Jesus took Ledger Toxin and the Sermon on the Mount about how even if you look upon a woman with lust, you've committed adultery with her in your heart.

So therefore, if the decision comes to it, should I look at pornography?

It'll reap a negative result because there's an entire chapter of Proverbs about adultery leading to bad things.

And Jesus told us that lust is...

So that's just another example that's not specifically talked about in Proverbs, but if we read more Proverbs, then we can gain a deeper understanding of negative consequences that may come as a result.

Yeah.

Because wisdom is something that is not actually quantifiable or can be written down at times.

It's something that's instilled within us.

It's something that we can witness other people doing.

It's the way that we think.

It's the way that we act and do.

And these Proverbs provide the environment or the arena that allow that to flourish.

Those principles.

Yeah.

So this may sound like an oversimplification, but over the next week, just take the time.

If you're ever in a tricky situation, just think, okay, is this a good decision or a bad decision?

What are the consequences and what are the drawbacks?

Like, what's going to happen as a result of me making this choice?

And hopefully, the more you read Proverbs, the greater help that will be to you.

And if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God who gives liberally.

One of my most favorite verses, again, James.

I think we say this every week and I'm like, is it James?

I'm pretty sure it's James.

But just ask God, ask the author of the Bible, and he will give you more understanding.

He will give you more wisdom.

And obviously comes from reading God's word as well.

Okay.

So that's good.

That's the bulk of it.

That's the big massive section.

That's over.

You'll be pleased to know.

Okay.

What about Proverbs 30?

Okay.

And now I'll give you a break, Peter.

Yes.

You'll be pleased to get a break from my voice.

Proverbs 30 is a very, it's kind of an odd one.

It's just in by itself in some wee section.

It's from a guy called Eger, as we talked about before.

And it's basically his example.

I think it's 13 sayings he gives us.

And he'd use a lot of metaphors about birds and animals and ships in the sea.

I read it quite last night with my family and it was quite a surprise, actually.

I hadn't read it in a while and it was really enjoyable.

So it's definitely worth a read.

And he's just the example of the ideal scripture reader.

He starts foolish at the start and saying the things he's done wrong in life.

And by the end, he says, okay, to gain wisdom, read the scriptures, read God's word.

So he's just the ideal reader of the Bible.

Starts as a fool and becomes wise as he reads it.

Okay.

And then Proverbs 31, what a great way to close.

Again, the personification of wisdom is a woman.

And then again, Proverbs 31 is concluded by saying, what makes a godly woman?

What are the characteristics?

What are the traits?

But yes, this was apparently, apparently it's been alluded to that this was written by Solomon by his mother.

So Bathsheba.

Apparently, that's what people say.

So Solomon is literally witnessing his mother as a godly character and then writes these characters.

So he's not going to be able to see the characteristics as he sees it or he's recollecting.

So take from that what you will.

But either way, we know that Solomon has been anointed with wisdom and he talks about key characteristics of a woman.

He talks about the love for hospitality, the love for children, the love for philanthropy, or kindness and generosity that should be extended for all people.

And again, this idea of having fear and reverence, again, alluding back to that earlier Proverb, Proverbs 9, about fear.

Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

So again, a practical application from that is, what are the traits in, if you're a woman, the traits and characteristics of a godly woman, read that passage and then apply it to your own life.

And then for guys, if you're looking for a relationship, if you're looking for a godly woman in order to pursue for marriage, then understand what is a godly woman, understand what you actually should be looking for.

And again, read Proverbs 31, okay?

That's Proverbs 11, I think.

Is it?

Oh my goodness.

I feel like you carried me there, but I think we have a little bit of time to talk just about some of our more favored Proverbs.

And I think this is just really a time for me to be honest.

To balance out the word.

Cause I literally just, Peter's so good with regards to the framework and the structure.

And then of course we've alluded to so many different chapters, but some of the ones that we just wanted to mention, some of the key ones that have had a fundamental shape on my life, I'm just going to say.

So Proverbs 18 talks about how a friend sticks closer than a brother.

Which is one of the most amazing passages.

You have to look in your own life and see who is in your life, who is in a position that can influence you and can help you grow.

And who is always there in the midst of suffering, who's there in the midst of joy and triumph and all these different seasons and times in your life.

Who's the brother, who's the friend that sticks closer than a brother.

And then reiterated in this sort of general theme about friendship and brotherhood, Proverbs 27.

A friend sticks closer than a brother is Proverbs 18.

I was just repeating myself there.

Okay, don't worry, saved it.

And then Proverbs 27 is a mirror reflects a man's friend, but what he is really like is shown by the friends that he chooses.

Again, the wisdom in that is quite amazing.

And then this is a referred to again in 1 Corinthians 15, where it just basically talks about the influences that appear in people's lives and how we need to surround ourselves with people who are godly and people who are wise, and then that will then reflect on us.

So whenever people see a friend, they will ultimately see you, is what I was trying to say.

So it's talking about the influence that people have.

Other Proverbs are Proverbs 14, 18, which talks about being prudent and wise.

Again, the idea of extracting yourself.

And there's...

What's the one about vomit?

Oh, yes, good.

I'm glad you're reminded, because I was actually going to bypass that.

Proverbs 26 talks about high.

Just as a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool returns to his foolishness.

So it's this idea that we are fools, we are sinners, and we constantly return to our sin, no matter how disgusting it is.

And we are compared to this dog that returns to eat its own sick.

So it gives you that picturesque moment of what it is actually like whenever you return to your sin.

Because often we attempt to glamorize it.

Sin is awful, sin is brutal, and we constantly return to it, and it's like the sickness.

And then a parallel passage to that is what we want, that's what not to be.

Again, the cause and the effect.

What we should be is Proverbs 24, which talks about, though a righteous man falls seven times, he gets back up again.

Okay, so I'm either up or in getting back up.

So there's just a brief overview of Proverbs.

There are 31 chapters in Proverbs, so our community group, the first reading we did together was we took a proverb a day and just read it and then fed back to each other what we thought about it.

So if you want to start reading the Proverbs, just take one proverb a day, meditate on it, and maybe like Luke, try and memorize a few of them.

Because it will honestly benefit you and it will change the whole outlook.

So that's us for this week, guys, and we'll see you next week.

Thanks for listening.

Goodbye.